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escada
Top Dog!!!!
Joined: 28 Jan 2007
Posts: 3002
Location: northern Ohio
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 Posted: Sat Apr 14, 2007 11:20 am Post subject: In the beginning.....A Decision to Breed |
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It is not my intention in this forum to get into the genetics and methodologies involved in breeding dogs/cresteds, as there are countless reference books for that subject area that I can refer someone to if they so wish.
I do think it is important to understand that this particular breeding is (as are all of my planned breedings) the result of a tremendous amount of time, research, and money well spent to develop and maintain a sound breeding program based on foundation stock from reputable crested breeding lines.
When I decided to move from showing/breeding Great Danes & Mastiffs to Chinese Cresteds, I spent almost 3 years researching the breed and breeders around the world before selecting a breeder/breeding lines and my initial foundation cresteds.
ALL of my cresteds must CERF clear on yearly basis and more recently be Optigen(prcd) test clear/or clear by default(both parents test clear) before they will be added to my showing/breeding program.
A decision to breed one of my girls is made when I determine a need to add to my showing/breeding program. In this particular case my little Simone was bred 3/6-3/7-3/8/2007 and with due dates of 5/6-5/8/2007 -based on a 63 day term-which cresteds seem to stick pretty close to. |
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Stollsilver
Slave to the Nakeds
Joined: 19 May 2006
Posts: 8983
Location: MA
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| Posted: Sat Apr 14, 2007 12:08 pm Post subject: Re: In the beginning.....A Decision to Breed |
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I think this section is great! This is so interesting for me, a non-show person, to learn and understand the show world.
| escada wrote: |
| A decision to breed one of my girls is made when I determine a need to add to my showing/breeding program. |
What are the determining factors? All your dogs are finished, no pups, lots of interest for your pups? |
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escada
Top Dog!!!!
Joined: 28 Jan 2007
Posts: 3002
Location: northern Ohio
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| Posted: Sat Apr 14, 2007 12:34 pm Post subject: |
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Honestly it depends on the time I have to devote and the number of dogs currently in my household at a given time.
I have bred when I have nothing left to show(everyone's finished). I have bred b/c a bitch is getting on in age and I want to preserve the genetics she brings to my lines. I try to make sure the pairing will produce offspring that will solidify the crested type I breed for and produce a litter that will offer puppies that can contribute to my breeding program. |
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Addy's Mom
Top Dog!!!!
Joined: 26 Mar 2007
Posts: 2478
Location: Massachusetts
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| Posted: Mon Apr 16, 2007 12:16 pm Post subject: |
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When you say "getting on in age" what do you mean? At what age would you normally breed a bitch if you think it's important to preserve her genes in your program?
Lis |
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escada
Top Dog!!!!
Joined: 28 Jan 2007
Posts: 3002
Location: northern Ohio
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| Posted: Mon Apr 16, 2007 2:11 pm Post subject: |
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| For me it depends on several factors. Assuming the bitch has had deliveries with no complications, I personally would never breed her more than 4xs, regardless of her age. With cresteds, I personally would not breed a bitch older than 7 years of age, but other breeders do and have done so successfully. The "age" factor varies from breed to breed as well as the overall health of the bitch. |
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moonmedic
Best in Show
Joined: 02 Feb 2007
Posts: 1847
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| Posted: Mon Apr 16, 2007 3:47 pm Post subject: |
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| wow, great questions (and answers) so far. I hope to learn a lot... thanks kristin! |
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cc
Show dog
Joined: 05 Oct 2006
Posts: 573
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| Posted: Mon Apr 16, 2007 9:04 pm Post subject: |
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If one is talking about a first litter......the lastest I would breed a girl for her first litter is between the age of 4 and 5.....as for the oldest I would breed a girl that would depend on many factors, from her health and fitness level, to her history as far as breeding goes and the quality of her previous puppies.
CC |
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jb
Guest
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| Posted: Thu Apr 19, 2007 10:40 am Post subject: |
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ok, i have a question : you say you breed to preserve a bitches line or when you have nothing to show.
- you had this combination last year, so aren't the bitches lines preserved in those pups ?
- why didn't you keep a puppy from that litter to show ?
you know i'm very nosey , i hope you won't mind  |
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Chelsey
Admin
Joined: 19 Dec 2005
Posts: 12290
Location: Indiana
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| Posted: Thu Apr 19, 2007 2:03 pm Post subject: |
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Kristin wont be back until Sunday but i think i can kinda answer your questions JB.
Shes not breeding this bitch JUST to preserve her lines as she is a young bitch under three years old. When she said something is bred to preserve a line she meant when the bitch was getting to old to have another litter.
She was either going to keep bayden or tango to show and to have, i chose bayden so kristin kept tango. Tango didnt quite end up being what she wanted so she petted him out to Laura. Now she still has bayden she can use, but hes not at her house.
She liked what this breeding produced (The type she is breeding for, Bayden, with the long legs, neck and back) so she is doing this breeding again because it has proven to be a very positive breeding.
Kristin, go ahead and jump in when you get back and fill in the gaps. But since i knew you wouldnt be back till sunday i thought i would give a bit of an answer See you tomorrow! |
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jb
Guest
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| Posted: Thu Apr 19, 2007 3:09 pm Post subject: |
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| Chelsey wrote: |
Kristin wont be back until Sunday but i think i can kinda answer your questions JB.
Shes not breeding this bitch JUST to preserve her lines as she is a young bitch under three years old. When she said something is bred to preserve a line she meant when the bitch was getting to old to have another litter.
She was either going to keep bayden or tango to show and to have, i chose bayden so kristin kept tango. Tango didnt quite end up being what she wanted so she petted him out to Laura. Now she still has bayden she can use, but hes not at her house.
She liked what this breeding produced (The type she is breeding for, Bayden, with the long legs, neck and back) so she is doing this breeding again because it has proven to be a very positive breeding.
Kristin, go ahead and jump in when you get back and fill in the gaps. But since i knew you wouldnt be back till sunday i thought i would give a bit of an answer See you tomorrow! |
i know it's not just to preserve lines , but i was just wondering about that |
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escada
Top Dog!!!!
Joined: 28 Jan 2007
Posts: 3002
Location: northern Ohio
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| Posted: Sat Apr 21, 2007 8:06 am Post subject: |
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| Maybe this helps? I repeated the breeding b/c the original intent was to get a show quality pp bitch from this litter-needless to say I ended up with 3 hl puppies. I was happy enough with the quality of all 3 of the pups to repeat to try for a pp bitch one more time-keeping my fingers crossed. |
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Gabrielle
Top Dog!!!!
Joined: 23 May 2006
Posts: 2853
Location: Madison, AL
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| Posted: Mon Apr 23, 2007 10:10 am Post subject: |
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Best of luck getting the PP that you are hoping for out of this litter  |
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jb
Guest
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| Posted: Mon Apr 23, 2007 3:10 pm Post subject: |
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thanx for the explanation kristen  i always wonder about repaeats , but this makes sense ! ( and i love the father btw !) |
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mybutterfliesbark
Show dog
Joined: 23 Jan 2006
Posts: 748
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| Posted: Wed Apr 25, 2007 8:30 pm Post subject: |
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I see and this makes sense. How old is too old to breed? Actually, for both males and females? Do males go 'bad' for lack of another way to say it. Old sperm I guess? Just trying to learn and NEVER breed.
Paula and ALTERED Paps |
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escada
Top Dog!!!!
Joined: 28 Jan 2007
Posts: 3002
Location: northern Ohio
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| Posted: Thu Apr 26, 2007 7:34 pm Post subject: |
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When looking at only at age, "too old" for bitches really depends on the breed and the health and condition of the individual bitch as well as her past reproductive history. B/c of a slower rate of aging toy breeds can generally be bred at later ages than larger breeds.
Males used infrequently/not at all can become less fertile, even sterile over time and this rate often does increase with age, which is why breeders will often get frozen semen on top quality stud dogs. |
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cc
Show dog
Joined: 05 Oct 2006
Posts: 573
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| Posted: Thu Apr 26, 2007 8:32 pm Post subject: |
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There are also kennel club rules on the subject....I believe AKC requires a dna and proof any male over the age of 10 years is fertile before they will register a litter sired by that male. Each kennel club though has their own rules, some going by age...ie no dog/bitch can be used after a certain age, others go by numbers of litters or offspring, refusing to register any more once they have reached that number.
CC |
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mybutterfliesbark
Show dog
Joined: 23 Jan 2006
Posts: 748
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| Posted: Thu Apr 26, 2007 9:53 pm Post subject: |
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Thanks to both of you. This is certainly informative and I am fascinated by all of it. It has also confirmed my long time stand for myself to spay and neuter and to pay those of you in the know for your expertise. I have certainly benefited from the knowledge of good breeders over the years.
Thanks again for your patience with my endless questions,
paula and WELL bred Paps |
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