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Pudgy Puff Has A Heart Murmur

- - - - - heart murmur diet

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22 replies to this topic

#1
PrettyPuff

PrettyPuff

So Puff has a stage 3 or 4 heart murmur. The vet said she was likely born with it (and likely passed it on to some of her pups because she was used for breeding). She is otherwise fine, so no accumulated fluids or anything. The only thing is that we need to take it easy on the exercize and only take short walks in warmer weather. That's fine except that she is a little chubby, which isn't good on her heart. She is also always hungry and I'm having trouble keeping weight off her. It seems like CCs are these slender, graceful little dogs and I feel like mine is a pudge-ball that sort of waddles around, and I mean that in the most loving way possible. It seems like females who were breeders in puppy mills tend to be a little heavy-set (at least from what i have seen). Does anyone have any suggestions about how to keep her weight down? I'm going to call my vet and ask her, but I'm also looking for some insight from you all. Currently her exercize is vey minimal, short walk once a day and she is a couch potato at home so no exercize going on at home. I feed her twice a day with the occasional treat inbetween. One meal is meat (raw, red meat) the other is vegetables. I was thinking about switching to a leaner red meat or even adding in some pultry. Chicken makes her itchy, so I'm hesitant to try something else like quail or duck. Duck is fatty though isn't it? Rabbit would be good, but it's so expensive. Any ideas about exercize without putting too much strain on her heart or food suggestions? I just want her to be as healthy as possible and I can tell she is a little over weight.



#2
Nita

Nita

Lily is doing well on a limited ingredient food with turkey and potato by Blue Basics and has actually lost some weight with it.  She won't touch any of the food for seniors or weigh management as they are almost all fish based and she doesn't like them.   She loves this one.  And with the limited ingredients she has not had any problems with itchy skin like she was having before (I suspected it may have been from chicken)   She has a mild heart murmur as well, a grade one,   Our vet is not concerned about it but agrees keeping weight off is important to keeping her healthy.   All the best to your Puff. 


Nita, mom to Katie and Lizzie and their furry friend Lily

#3
PrettyPuff

PrettyPuff

Thank you for your response. I'm glad Lily's murmur is only mild. You can feel Puffs murmur with your hand! Turkey is very lean. I think I will pick some up tomorrow and see if it makes her itchy or not. 



#4
PrettyPuff

PrettyPuff

Want to add that she weights 13 pounds. She weighed 14 pounds when I got her. She had no muscle definition and her belly was round, as in her waist would buldge out instead of taper in. So now she has a little waist definition and good muscle definition so she has lost fat and gained muscle. So we have made big progress in a short amount of time, but since that first big initial chage she has been sort of stuck at this slighty over weight stage. Maybe I'm just being an over protective mommy! I'll put some pics on here to see what you all think. Maybe she's just a little thick, but still OK. I wouln't be worrying so much about her weight if it weren't for her heart murmur, as well as her being older and over-breed.



#5
PrettyPuff

PrettyPuff
Ok here are some pics, I tried to get different angles. Do you think she's at a healthy weight or should I try to get her a little leaner?
PUFF-Jan 2014 009
PUFF- Jan 2014 013
PUFF-Jan 2014 004
PUFF-Jan 2014 003
PUFF- Jan 2014

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#6
Ace

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Here's my two cents.  She still looks a bit heavy... but you can't go by weight.  My Morgan is 13 lbs but she's tall and skinny.  If your baby's weight should be around 10 lbs (average) then she definitely could lose a few more.  It's a slow go, but can be done.

 

Also... my hairy hairless boy, Ace (in the avatar pic), has hypothyroidism.  He looked fairly similar to your girl.  Has she been tested for that?  Once he was on medication, it made a world of difference and the weight came off easier.

 

Both my ccs have high grade heart murmurs.  Both are on medication to slow its progress and are doing fine.  Walks don't need to be ultra short.  Ace lets me know when he's had enough and we return.  They both have spurts of energy and will race around the back but they know when to rest.

 

We actually had Ace on the treadmill when we discovered his hypothyroidism (since it was the dead of winter) and he did great in getting his muscles primed again for walks.


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“My dog, she looks at me sometimes with that look, and I think maybe deep down inside she must know exactly how I feel. But then maybe she just wants the food off my plate.”Posted ImagePosted ImagePosted ImagePosted ImagePosted Imagehttp://www.chinesecr...line=1340394355https://www.facebook...mouseinthehouse

#7
PrettyPuff

PrettyPuff

Ok, no big surprise there, I though she might be. No, she hasn't been tested,  but I do agree with you that it would be a good idea to do and I had in mind to do it at one point. I will give my vet a call. Puff never seems to have spurts of energy :( If she does it only lasts a couple seconds and then she's back to lounging around. On walks she is so afraid of everything that she's not excited to go outside and she lags behind the whole time. She's gotten better but only in this one particular area of the neighborhood. I don't want to go on long walks because she is so afraid, I don't want to put too much stress on her heart. She does enjoy sniffing around the yard a little.  Thank you for your suggestions. I'm open to any further advice or suggestions :)


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#8
Horseplay

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How old is she?

Is she spayed?

I second the thyroid testing, we have a thyo Beagle and meds made a WORLD of difference for him.  Though he's still tough to keep weight off of :-/  He too is always hungry.

 

I feed raw too, but you need to make sure it's balanced.  You made no mention if she gets bone or organ (mainly liver)?  Both are VERY important, just as important as meat.  She could lack energy if her diet is lacking, same as if you ate quality meat but didn't drink milk, eat yogurt or a salad from time to time...  How many ounces of meat a day do you feed her?  You can try pork, fish (but not as primary meat source), lamb and turkey.  Where do you live?  Maybe you can find a meat packer for cheaper meats if you can buy in bulk?  I shop at the big market in the city from time to time and pick up a few pounds of whole smelt for super cheap and I look for what they have in the "dis-guard" or "suitable for soup" pile at the fish stands.  One time I scored Mahi Mahi head, black cod chunks, tuna chunks - both meat, just only 4-5 hunks so nothign people want to buy because it's not enough for a meal, but perfect for a Crestie meal - or a Beagle on a diet :P  Also, you can pop in to local butchers and ask for the stuff they tend to throw away - hearts are a super source of meat and it counts as meat not organ!  You can also get tongue - also meat not organ, you might be able to score some liver (super important in regular diet), kidney or lung.  All tend to be super cheap since humans tend not to want them.

 

You really need to up her exercise.  Try doing many short walks a day.  3 walks 10min each daily is a good start.  You need to get her out and exposed to things a little at the time or she will always be scared, by not doing it you are kinda teaching her it's perfectly okay to fear it all and avoid it.  I have a mill rescue too, a Xolo, and he used to be terrified of everything.  I had so many back-up security measures in place, buckle collar with id, martingale collar, harnesses, double leashes attached....for fear he'd be scared by something and get away.  It took me a bit over a year but he's my best leash walker, I always have treats on hand (hot dogs he can not resist) and I ask people to treat him if he shows anxiety or fear or I will treat him when he is "being brave".  He's great in public now, he never wants strangers to come near or touch him and I can totally handle that, but he is very trusting in me and sticks close but can have a nice walk now.  A little at a time, start small.  Lots of 5min walks, then 10min then 15min, I would think you could do 20-30 moderate paced walks with her eventually.  Keep in mind, No exercise is just as detrimental as over doing it.

 

A treadmill is a good idea though not always affordable for everyone for indoor activity.  What about a treat ball she has to roll around - NOTE: whatever you put in the treat ball you REMOVE from her daily meal rations.  You can use freeze dried liver or something like that, cut it in to tiny pieces.  Not sure what to suggest for indoors, mine are pretty active, I reduce food rations in winter because they aren't near as active as in nice weather.  We still go out for walks a lot, just crazy bundled.

 

Good luck with her and thanks for giving a mill dog a home :)  I am in rescue and we do all breed, I swear the hairless guys are by far the hardest to get used to "pet life" and being loved and spoiled.  They are all just so much more nervous and take so much longer to earn the trust.  But they are also by far the most rewarding to have the love and trust of.


"Be who you are and say what you feel because those who mind don't matter and those who matter don't mind." - Dr. Seuss

Got Crested, Got Xolo, Go Naked!


#9
Laura

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She's very pretty. Heart murmurs are pretty common and they can go for a very long time without any problems from them, so that's the good news.  I regulate my dogs' weight just by adjusting the amount of food I give them.  When one is getting a little portly, I'll cut back that one's portions by 1/4 for a bit.  If one is getting too thin, I'll feed a little more for a while.  It's actually pretty easy to get them to an optimal weight this way, in my experience. They aren't like us-- they don't run off and secretly snack, so it seems to work.  


If life hands you melons, you're probably dyslexic. http://www.facebook....ethelovemuffin/http://www.louiethelovemuffin.com/LaxPi.gif


#10
PrettyPuff

PrettyPuff

She is 7, but that is according to the breeders who surrendered her, so who knows. The vet agreed she's around 7 or possibly older. Yes, she is spayed.

I think she eats better than I do! She gets whole ground prey (skin, bone, tripe, organs etc.), all free-range and organic. She has been eating llama, venison, mutton, goat, beef, and pork. I give her a little coconut oil and keefer every day. For her non-meat meal she usually gets some variation of pumpkin, squash, cauliflower, carrots, and broccoli. She also gets a supplemental vitamin. 

 

We do one 15-30min walk a day.

I also take her to the dog park, we do group classes, I take her to pet store, she goes everywhere with me. She is getting plenty of exposure. I don't want to over-do it because I know it is stressful for her. A long walk for me would be an hour. We used to do those before I found out about the murmur and the vet said to cut it back to no more than 30min and no more than 15min when it's hot out. I don't feel that I'm teaching her to be afraid. The trainers in the group classes have commented how they can tell how much I'm working with her on exposure because of how good she is doing and how much she has improved. Ya she's still afraid 6 months and all this effort later, but you should have seen the state she was in when I got her! Poor lil thing, she had never even been on a leash before.

 

Thanks Laura, I think so too :)

I give her 2oz of meat and 1oz of vegetables a day. I do give her treats though, a few times a day and it's a quarter sized piece of dehydrated lamb liver. This dog is always hungry! Honestly she's sounding like a hypo dog the more I think about it. I'll get that checked out and see what the deal is.


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#11
kevlaur

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I don't think she looks  that heavy I think she is like the rest of us women that have had kids ....... and has lost her slender waist line.


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DCP_2493-1.jpg

~ ~ ~ ~ Suki ~ ~ ~~

 Puppies are nature's remedy for feeling unloved, plus numerous other ailments of life.

Richard Allan Palm


#12
Horseplay

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She is 7, but that is according to the breeders who surrendered her, so who knows. The vet agreed she's around 7 or possibly older. Yes, she is spayed.

I think she eats better than I do! She gets whole ground prey (skin, bone, tripe, organs etc.), all free-range and organic. She has been eating llama, venison, mutton, goat, beef, and pork. I give her a little coconut oil and keefer every day. For her non-meat meal she usually gets some variation of pumpkin, squash, cauliflower, carrots, and broccoli. She also gets a supplemental vitamin. 

 

We do one 15-30min walk a day.

I also take her to the dog park, we do group classes, I take her to pet store, she goes everywhere with me. She is getting plenty of exposure. I don't want to over-do it because I know it is stressful for her. A long walk for me would be an hour. We used to do those before I found out about the murmur and the vet said to cut it back to no more than 30min and no more than 15min when it's hot out. I don't feel that I'm teaching her to be afraid. The trainers in the group classes have commented how they can tell how much I'm working with her on exposure because of how good she is doing and how much she has improved. Ya she's still afraid 6 months and all this effort later, but you should have seen the state she was in when I got her! Poor lil thing, she had never even been on a leash before.

 

Thanks Laura, I think so too :)

I give her 2oz of meat and 1oz of vegetables a day. I do give her treats though, a few times a day and it's a quarter sized piece of dehydrated lamb liver. This dog is always hungry! Honestly she's sounding like a hypo dog the more I think about it. I'll get that checked out and see what the deal is.

 

Sounds like you are doing every thing right!

 

I appreciate that you gave more detail and clarified diet and routine.  It didn't sound like you were doing much with her in the first bit of details posted, but then again, not everyone wants to write an essay like I do!  The fear stuff will get better in time especially since you've got her out and about and even in classes.  I found my guy wasn't even ready to do classes until I'd had him about a year so sounds like you are ahead of the game with her!  It sounds like her food portions are good too.  I'd really have her thyroid checked but given she is 7 and has been a baby factory, kevlaur could be on to something, lol, she's a mature momma and thanks to baby-makin' less waist line :)

 

She looks to otherwise be very healthy, nice skin, looks like her hair i very nice and silky :)  I really like her color!


Edited by Horseplay, 16 January 2014 - 07:11 PM.

"Be who you are and say what you feel because those who mind don't matter and those who matter don't mind." - Dr. Seuss

Got Crested, Got Xolo, Go Naked!


#13
kevlaur

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What Crestie isn't always hungry??? none of my other dogs are so food driven as Suki is you would swear I never feed her and yet the bowl is always full.


DCP_2493-1.jpg

~ ~ ~ ~ Suki ~ ~ ~~

 Puppies are nature's remedy for feeling unloved, plus numerous other ailments of life.

Richard Allan Palm


#14
PrincessFifi

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I agree, the having of pups and then being spayed is what's making her look a little heavier. And it doesn't sound like you over feeding her at all. Maybe just split your walks up instead of one long walk? That a way she can still get the exercise she needs but it won't be too much on her all at the same time. Sorry to hear about her murmur though :( My grandmas dog had a murmur almost her whole life and she lived to be 14, so please don't think of it as a death sentence. I think as long as you keep her on the right track she will be alright :)

PS - She is a very pretty color!
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#15
Wijic

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Can you take a picture of Puff from the top down? I agree that she might have some extra tum from the pups and the spay, that may be stretched muscle rather than excess pudge. But, if that's the case, I think she should still have a waist if you look at her from the top down.

 

3 oz of food a day for a 13 lb dog seems a very small amount to me. Most of my 8-14lb dogs get 6oz of raw a day and they are very fit and trim (I have one 8lb-er that gets 4-5 oz or he'll get plump and I have a 9lb-er that gets 8 oz or he becomes all ribs and jutting hip bones). If Puff is plump on 3 oz a day, I am inclined to agree that there may be something medical, like hypothyroid, going on.



#16
armanicrazi

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I too thought that was a very small portion size. Mine are on kibble and raw now but when the were on just raw they each got 6 oz a day plus green beans, pumpkin and yogurt. If she really is overweight it seems like theres got to be something underlying and not overeating.
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]***MEGAN***

#17
armanicrazi

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I also wanted to mention both of mine are between 11-12 lbs
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]***MEGAN***

#18
deedswan

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She is beautiful, I have a shy dog too, it just takes time.
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#19
PrettyPuff

PrettyPuff

Woops! That was a type-o. Haha she would probably eat me if that's all she got!

Let me go into detail about her diet to clarify how she gets fed.

She gets 2.5%-3% of her current body weight, which is about 13lbs, so that's 4oz of meat a day + 1oz (sometimes 2) of veggies (5-6oz total). I used to feed 5-6oz of only red meat but her waist came out at the sides (when viewed top-down) so I replaced about an ounce with veggies. I could give her 5-6oz of pultry or 4oz of red meat to keep her looking the same as she does now.

To sort of sum-up, in order to keep her how she looks now she gets 4oz of red meat + 1-2oz of veggies + several treats in between per day. She is very inactive and basically sleeps all day. She is always hungry. Even when she was getting the 5-6oz of red meat only she was always hungry...there is no filling this dog.

 

So now that I've given more detail, which I should have done in the first place, does it seem like she's just got a mama body and a good apeitte? Or does this indicate a possible medical condition?

 

Also, thank you! I've got bit by the Crestie bug, I think they are are beautiful!

As far as the shy-ness goes, there is improvement in every area exept for how she handles other dogs coming up to her.  I don't know if this is a realistic expectation, but I would like her to be able to let another dog sniff her without her showing any fear-agression, but I'm kind of at a loss for how to help her at this point.



#20
PrettyPuff

PrettyPuff

Top-view

2014


#21
armanicrazi

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Top view looks great to me... looks exactly like my 2 which by the way were always starving on only raw too regardless of how many oz i fed them.
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]***MEGAN***

#22
armanicrazi

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Top view looks great to me... looks exactly like my 2 which by the way were always starving on only raw too regardless of how many oz i fed them.
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]***MEGAN***

#23
PrettyPuff

PrettyPuff

Oh good, ok, so her tummy is from being a puppy-making factory. Ya it confused me because I thouight the top view was fine but the side view looked a little excess. I didn't expect the puppies could make her waist area stretch out so much, makes sense though.  

Puff says "See, I told you I wasn't pudgy...you going to finish that sandwich?"






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